Egyptian presidential candidates in first television debate
Millions of Egyptians tune into two private satellite channels to watch Amr Moussa
and Abdel-Moneim Abul-Futoh debate
Egypt's presidential candidates Amr Moussa (right) and Abdel Moneim Abu Futuh during the televised presidential debate in Cairo. Photograph: Ahmed Hayman/EPA
Millions of Egyptians tuned into the first ever presidential debate in the country's history on Thursday night between frontrunners Amr Moussa and Abdel-Moneim Abul-Futoh.
With former president Hosni Mubarak languishing in hospital as he awaits sentencing next month, Egyptians watched two private satellite channels to witness an event held within its borders for the first time: a bona fide presidential debate.
There are 13 candidates in the campaign, which begins on 23 May, but the two who showed up for the TV bout were the established frontrunners in the polls, former foreign minister Moussa and former Muslim Brotherhood member Abul-Futoh.
Taking away the leftist revolutionary candidates, Moussa and Abul-Futoh exemplified perfectly the fault-lines of the upcoming election. Moussa was affiliated to the previous regime while Abul-Futoh was a prominent supporter of the revolution. Also, Moussa is a secular liberal while Abul-Futoh is a moderate Islamist.
Each candidate set out to accentuate his credentials to the detriment of the other. Abul-Futoh alluded to Moussa's ties to the Mubarak regime many times, while Moussa reciprocated by attacking Abul-Futoh's affiliation to the Muslim Brotherhood.
Candidates were asked a broad selection of questions over the four and half hours of the debate, ranging from the relationship with the ruling military junta, minority rights and the implementation of Sharia law.
Moussa brought up Sharia law many times in order to attack Abul-Futoh, which led the latter to admit he did intend to implement the rulings of Sharia law, though he argued it would not contravene civil liberties nor the rights of non-Muslims.
"There is no duality between religion and citizenship, the state or the constitution. The nature of Islam is that it looks for the interest of people. When we look for their interests, this is congruous with Sharia law," Abul-Futoh said.
For his part ,Moussa distanced himself from Mubarak and his regime, stating, "When the regime fell, it fell with its men and I wasn't one of them. I left 10 years ago and when it fell I wasn't part of it."
The candidates were also asked about the ruling military junta and the litany of abuses conducted by them, including the infamous virginity tests against female protesters. They both responded by saying that if it did happen, a full investigation must take place and those responsible held accountable.
The candidates were also asked about Israel, the US and Iran. Ever the diplomat, Moussa said relations with Israel must be reconfigured until a Palestinian state with East Jerusalem as its capital was created.
Abul-Futoh was more scathing, labelling Israel a threat to Egypt with its 200 nuclear warheads and continued broaching of Egyptian sovereignty on its borders. Both were rather more blasé about the US. Regarding Iran, Moussa urged that there should be no attack, while Abul-Futoh said Iran was welcome to have relations with Egypt as long as it did not attempt to spread Shia beliefs.
The London riots also made its way into the debate, when Abul-Futoh pointed out that police protected looters even as they rioted, in way of explanation that it was the job of police to avoid deaths even if protests turn violent.
The debate was aired concurrently on two satellite channels belonging to prominent Egyptian businessmen Naguib Sawiris and Ahmed Bahgat. It was not aired on national television and was full of ad breaks, giving it a Superbowl-type atmosphere and leading to criticism that it was a money-making endeavour as much as it was a historic occasion.
It was also not without its surreal moments. Beforehand, the presenters discussed debates in the US and Europe, and while talking about the debate between Joe Biden and Sarah Palin of 2008, footage was aired of Tina Fey impersonating Palin on the satirical television show Saturday Night Live.
Watch the whole debate
The debate in details
There are hopes that the debate will break new ground in Arab election coverage, with some challenging questions and serious discussion of the issues, rather than the old-style obsequiousness.
The format is that each candidate will be given two minutes to answer each question and will then be allowed to comment on each other's responses. Each candidate can also ask their opponent one question at the end of each half of the debate.
The first half will focus on questions about the constitution and presidential powers, while the second half will deal with the candidates' electoral platforms, the judiciary, security and other topics.
The debate is being broadcast by two privately-owned channels, ONTV and Dream, in cooperation with two privately-owned newspapers, Al-Masry Al-Youm and Al-Shorouk.
This might be because Sabahy was a staunch supporter of the revolution and Shafik was the Mubarak-appointed Prime Minister at the time. Would have been fun to watch that.
Two senior pollsters were interviewed to explain the process behind their results that show Moussa and Abul Futoh are the frontrunners.
Now Amr Khafaga expounds on the rules of the debate. Khafaga says their is no precedent for such an event in Egypt so they've borrowed the debate rules from the US, Egyptianizing it a bit. Each candidate will have a two-minute introduction, then will have two minutes to respond to the 24 questions from the panel. The candidates will also have the right to rebuttal on the other's comments every three questions in one minute, in which the other will have two minutes to respond. At the end of each of the two phases, candidates may ask each other one question. Each candidate will have two minutes at the end for closing remarks.
The order of who goes first was decided by a draw, done before the show started, with the slips picked out by a small boy called Amr.
Now footage of Amr in the draw. The draw also included whose name is to be announced first, and from which side each candidate will enter the debate.
Khafaga talks now about how under the Mubarak regime, conducting political polls needed a permit from the notorious state security apparatus and could get you arrested.
You could however conduct polls on potatoes, Khafaga says.
Yosri Fouda echoes calls that this was thanks to the blood of the martyrs, which is interesting as people were critcizing the debate for that very reason.
Now a montage of the 25 January martyrs over a stirring piano ballad.
Moussa is next. He says that he wants a state that is progressing towards development and serving the needs of the citizen, a state with a strong constitution that respects its citizens and is far from the oppression of the previous regime.
Moussa mentions article 2 of the constitution which states that Islamic Sharia is the basis of legislation but that citizens of other religions follow their own beliefs.
Abul-Futouh: I don't think if I was president that this would have happened anyways. The Abbaseya events was mismanaged by many powers. Peaceful demonstrations are a right gained by the revolution. In the past, peaceful expression wasn't even permitted. When people protest, the state should protect them. As to letting them kill each other that is the responsibility of the current authority in power, whomever it may be. Also, you cannot attack state institutions nor hold up traffic. It doesn't matter if they are thugs or revolutionaries, police must protect them. He mentions that British police protected looters during the London riots.
Abul-Futouh: I don't see that under a fairly elected president I don't think protests will increase because there will be a leader who will address these concerns, not a head of a failed state that cannot provide for citizens like the previous regime. I caution Egyptians that what is happening now is not because of the revolution, but because of a corrupt regime that ruled for thirty years. When Egyptians find their president is honest and trustworthy, they will help him solve the country's problems.
Abul-Futoh responds that what Moussa is saying is incorrect. He says he participated in solidarity with those who were killed irrespective of who they were. Where was the state to protect them? The protests were peaceful, he said, though they did block traffic.
Abul-Futoh speaks during the election debate. Photograph: Dream TV/AFP/Getty Images This time using the example of Occupy Wall Street, he says that police managed to disperse the protest without killing anyone. "I don't see in my position any contradiction ... How long will we describe those who are expressing themselves peacefully as instigators of chaos?"
Moussa repsonds by saying that Abul-Futouh is also mistaken.
"When the regime fell, it fell with it's men and I wasn't one of them. I left ten years ago and when it fell I wasn't part of it."
Moussa then attacks Abul-Futouh for stating that he used to defend Muslim Brotherhood positions, not the interests of Egypt. He then speaks of comments he made during the revolution which backs that he was in favour of the revolution.
Abul-Futouh: I support a mixed presidential/parliamentary system with limited powers for the president. I objected to the parliamentary system because it is still early for political parties to get on their feet and share power. The president will be in charge of foreign affairs, national security and coordinating between the branches of the power.
"We respect the armed forces and must keep it away from the unnecessary insults."
Abul-Futoh: The armed forces are a patriotic force and during the revolution people chanted the army and people are one. How Scaf ran the country now has nothing to do with the esteem in which we hold our armed forces. But no state institution can be above the law.
Moussa points out that Abul-Futouh wants to implement the rulings of Sharia and Abul-Futouh quips "of course".
Abul-Futouh responds that he resigned from the Brotherhood last year when announcing his candidacy and that he has support from all Egyptians, liberals, moderate Islamists and conservative Islamists, like the Salafis.
Moussa responds to this by accusing Abul-Futouh of doublespeak to have such broad support and must be tailoring his message to each one.
Abul-Futouh counters by asking Moussa about his support of Mubarak's reelection in 2010.
Moussa counters that this was a specific question he had been asked about whether he supported Mubarak senior or his son Gamal, and that he preferred the elder to the inheritance of power scenario.
With former president Hosni Mubarak languishing in hospital as he awaits sentencing next month, Egyptians watched two private satellite channels to witness an event held within its borders for the first time: a bona fide presidential debate.
There are 13 candidates in the campaign, which begins on 23 May, but the two who showed up for the TV bout were the established frontrunners in the polls, former foreign minister Moussa and former Muslim Brotherhood member Abul-Futoh.
Taking away the leftist revolutionary candidates, Moussa and Abul-Futoh exemplified perfectly the fault-lines of the upcoming election. Moussa was affiliated to the previous regime while Abul-Futoh was a prominent supporter of the revolution. Also, Moussa is a secular liberal while Abul-Futoh is a moderate Islamist.
Each candidate set out to accentuate his credentials to the detriment of the other. Abul-Futoh alluded to Moussa's ties to the Mubarak regime many times, while Moussa reciprocated by attacking Abul-Futoh's affiliation to the Muslim Brotherhood.
Candidates were asked a broad selection of questions over the four and half hours of the debate, ranging from the relationship with the ruling military junta, minority rights and the implementation of Sharia law.
Moussa brought up Sharia law many times in order to attack Abul-Futoh, which led the latter to admit he did intend to implement the rulings of Sharia law, though he argued it would not contravene civil liberties nor the rights of non-Muslims.
"There is no duality between religion and citizenship, the state or the constitution. The nature of Islam is that it looks for the interest of people. When we look for their interests, this is congruous with Sharia law," Abul-Futoh said.
For his part ,Moussa distanced himself from Mubarak and his regime, stating, "When the regime fell, it fell with its men and I wasn't one of them. I left 10 years ago and when it fell I wasn't part of it."
The candidates were also asked about the ruling military junta and the litany of abuses conducted by them, including the infamous virginity tests against female protesters. They both responded by saying that if it did happen, a full investigation must take place and those responsible held accountable.
The candidates were also asked about Israel, the US and Iran. Ever the diplomat, Moussa said relations with Israel must be reconfigured until a Palestinian state with East Jerusalem as its capital was created.
Abul-Futoh was more scathing, labelling Israel a threat to Egypt with its 200 nuclear warheads and continued broaching of Egyptian sovereignty on its borders. Both were rather more blasé about the US. Regarding Iran, Moussa urged that there should be no attack, while Abul-Futoh said Iran was welcome to have relations with Egypt as long as it did not attempt to spread Shia beliefs.
The London riots also made its way into the debate, when Abul-Futoh pointed out that police protected looters even as they rioted, in way of explanation that it was the job of police to avoid deaths even if protests turn violent.
The debate was aired concurrently on two satellite channels belonging to prominent Egyptian businessmen Naguib Sawiris and Ahmed Bahgat. It was not aired on national television and was full of ad breaks, giving it a Superbowl-type atmosphere and leading to criticism that it was a money-making endeavour as much as it was a historic occasion.
It was also not without its surreal moments. Beforehand, the presenters discussed debates in the US and Europe, and while talking about the debate between Joe Biden and Sarah Palin of 2008, footage was aired of Tina Fey impersonating Palin on the satirical television show Saturday Night Live.
Watch the whole debate
The debate in details
Egyptian presidential election TV debate – as it happened
Egypt hoped to break new ground in Arab election coverage with first-ever presidential television debate
A woman walks past campaign posters of presidential candidates in Cairo. Photograph: Amr Abdallah Dalsh/Reuters
Tonight is a key moment for Egypt and Egyptian television. It's the country's first-ever presidential election TV debate.
The protagonists are front-running candidates Amr Moussa (former foreign minister and former head of the Arab League) and Abdel Moneim Abul Fotouh (formerly of the Muslim Brotherhood) and two high-profile TV figures will be posing the questions: chat show host Mona el-Shazly and former al-Jazeera journalist Yosri Fouda.There are hopes that the debate will break new ground in Arab election coverage, with some challenging questions and serious discussion of the issues, rather than the old-style obsequiousness.
My friends are coming over to watch the presidential debate at my house.. we used to gather 2 watch Football games! How life has changed =)
The first half will focus on questions about the constitution and presidential powers, while the second half will deal with the candidates' electoral platforms, the judiciary, security and other topics.
The debate is being broadcast by two privately-owned channels, ONTV and Dream, in cooperation with two privately-owned newspapers, Al-Masry Al-Youm and Al-Shorouk.
Abdel-Rahman Hussein in Cairo will be sending in live updates from Egypt.
Voters are taking to Twitter to express their excitement for the debate. The presenters have appeared at the debate, reports Abdel-Rahman Hussein:
We have Reem Maguid and Yosri Fouda from ONTV, Hafez Mirazi from Dream TV and Amr Khafaga, editor-in-chief of Al-Shurouk newspaper. Also in attendance is MP and member of the board of Al-Masry Al-Youm newspaper, Amr Al-Shobaki. Each one is currently giving a short introduction. The debate itself is about 40 minutes away. Mirazi says that the two candidates in today's debate are the frontrunners according to the polls.
Khafaga explaining why only those two candidates are in tonight's debate. His reasoning is that they are the two who are ahead in all the pre-election polls.
There were criticisms earlier today from the campaign of candidate Hamdein Sabahy regarding the debates, because there was a lot of speculation that certain candidates refused to appear with others, in this case candidate Ahmed Shafik had reservations about appearing with Sabahy. This might be because Sabahy was a staunch supporter of the revolution and Shafik was the Mubarak-appointed Prime Minister at the time. Would have been fun to watch that.
Two senior pollsters were interviewed to explain the process behind their results that show Moussa and Abul Futoh are the frontrunners.
Now Amr Khafaga expounds on the rules of the debate. Khafaga says their is no precedent for such an event in Egypt so they've borrowed the debate rules from the US, Egyptianizing it a bit. Each candidate will have a two-minute introduction, then will have two minutes to respond to the 24 questions from the panel. The candidates will also have the right to rebuttal on the other's comments every three questions in one minute, in which the other will have two minutes to respond. At the end of each of the two phases, candidates may ask each other one question. Each candidate will have two minutes at the end for closing remarks.
The order of who goes first was decided by a draw, done before the show started, with the slips picked out by a small boy called Amr.
Fact: This is the first presidential debate in #Egypt but not the first in the #Arab world. The first was in Mauritania in 2007. #monazarat
Managing editor of Egypt Independent Lina Attalah tweeted:
Excerpts aired of the first televised presidential debates between Kennedy and Nixon in 1960. Kennedy speaks and Nixon has no comment to make.
The actual debate will be slightly delayed because Abdel-Moneim Abul-Futouh is stuck in traffic, a perfectly plausible excuse in Cairo. Abdel-Moneim Abul-Futouh's media advisor tweeted:
CNN senior international correspondent Ben Wedeman isn't suprised by Cairo's notorious traffic:
Looks like the claim that this is the first Arab presidential debate won't go undisputed:
We're twenty minutes away now and Abul-Futoh seems to have arrived.
The debate itself will be moderated by Yosri Fouda of ONTV and Mona Al-Shazly of Dream TV. Khafaga talks now about how under the Mubarak regime, conducting political polls needed a permit from the notorious state security apparatus and could get you arrested.
You could however conduct polls on potatoes, Khafaga says.
Let the surrealism continue, as presenters discuss Sarah Palin and her debate with Joe Biden in 2008, excerpts from Saturday Night Live are aired with Tina Fey.
Time to try and get slightly serious, as debate will begin after the ad break.
A picture of Abul-Futouh prepping before the debate begins:
Still the interminable ad break rolls on. Abul-Futouh is apparently praying the Aisha (Evening) prayer and then it should start.
And we're off, finally, after the longest ad break this side of the revolution.
Mona el-Shazly and Yosri Fouda are waxing lyrical with much poeticism that tonight's debate would not have happened if not for the revolution. Yosri Fouda echoes calls that this was thanks to the blood of the martyrs, which is interesting as people were critcizing the debate for that very reason.
Now a montage of the 25 January martyrs over a stirring piano ballad.
The nerves they are a-jangling. The ominous background gameshow music is helping.
And the candidates come on the set, stage-right and stage-left. They shake hands then they shake the presenters' hands.
Abul-Futouh is a good foot taller than everybody else. And ever so quickly we cut to a graphic of each candidate's history. Abul-Futouh begins with the opening statement. He iterates that without the blood of the martyrs (many of which he names) they wouldn't be here today. He adds that the Egyptian state that he wishes to see is a democratic independent state that elevates Sharia law where citizens will have jobs and their dignity.
Abul-Futouh ends his opening statement with the Tahrir slogan "Bread, Freedom, Social Justice."Moussa is next. He says that he wants a state that is progressing towards development and serving the needs of the citizen, a state with a strong constitution that respects its citizens and is far from the oppression of the previous regime.
Moussa mentions article 2 of the constitution which states that Islamic Sharia is the basis of legislation but that citizens of other religions follow their own beliefs.
Next question is: If you were president during the Abbaseya clashes last week, what would you have done?
Moussa: I didn't wait to be president. I made many calls to the government and political powers. It was important that the police intervene and stop the bloodshed. The Abbaseya clashes were exploited by some for their own ends. What happened in Abbaseya shouldn't have happened, especially as we are so close to the transfer of power. We need security and unity, not chaos and slogans and grandstanding. Abul-Futouh: I don't think if I was president that this would have happened anyways. The Abbaseya events was mismanaged by many powers. Peaceful demonstrations are a right gained by the revolution. In the past, peaceful expression wasn't even permitted. When people protest, the state should protect them. As to letting them kill each other that is the responsibility of the current authority in power, whomever it may be. Also, you cannot attack state institutions nor hold up traffic. It doesn't matter if they are thugs or revolutionaries, police must protect them. He mentions that British police protected looters during the London riots.
Following question is about sector protests and how to handle them.
Moussa: The state wasn't a bastion that protected citizens and many sectors feel injustice, so the state must be ready from now to fix these issues with transparency. Steps must be taken to ease the living conditions of people. I agree with the justice of these demands and the state must engage them. We should ignore it but we must be transparent in the fact that we can address concerns in a gradual manner. The current protests is because there is a feeling of failure of the state.Abul-Futouh: I don't see that under a fairly elected president I don't think protests will increase because there will be a leader who will address these concerns, not a head of a failed state that cannot provide for citizens like the previous regime. I caution Egyptians that what is happening now is not because of the revolution, but because of a corrupt regime that ruled for thirty years. When Egyptians find their president is honest and trustworthy, they will help him solve the country's problems.
The rebuttal phase, which means that the candidate can either ask the other a question and expect a response, or comment on what the other candidate has already said.
Moussa comes out swinging and says that Abul-Futouh led a march to Abbaseya before the clashes and then later said it was an inappropriate protest. Why the contradiction and the lead to chaos?Abul-Futoh responds that what Moussa is saying is incorrect. He says he participated in solidarity with those who were killed irrespective of who they were. Where was the state to protect them? The protests were peaceful, he said, though they did block traffic.
Abul-Futoh speaks during the election debate. Photograph: Dream TV/AFP/Getty Images This time using the example of Occupy Wall Street, he says that police managed to disperse the protest without killing anyone. "I don't see in my position any contradiction ... How long will we describe those who are expressing themselves peacefully as instigators of chaos?" Abul-Futouh now asks Moussa that since he was a former minister in the previous regime, which Egyptians revolted against, how does he expect a symbol of that regime to lead the country now?
"The least you did was stay silent in the face of crimes against Egyptians."Moussa repsonds by saying that Abul-Futouh is also mistaken.
"When the regime fell, it fell with it's men and I wasn't one of them. I left ten years ago and when it fell I wasn't part of it."
Moussa then attacks Abul-Futouh for stating that he used to defend Muslim Brotherhood positions, not the interests of Egypt. He then speaks of comments he made during the revolution which backs that he was in favour of the revolution.
Now a question about the authorities a president needs and what he doesn't need in order to avoid being a dictator.
Moussa: The mandate of the president will be very clear and limited by the constitution. What we want is a democratic system that will not bring another dictator.Abul-Futouh: I support a mixed presidential/parliamentary system with limited powers for the president. I objected to the parliamentary system because it is still early for political parties to get on their feet and share power. The president will be in charge of foreign affairs, national security and coordinating between the branches of the power.
A question is asked about the role of the military.
Moussa says the armed forces has a known and limited role, to defend the country and national security and when power is transferred at the end of June the powers of Scaf will go to the president. And that will be a big change because they themselves want to retrain the army away from the extra duties. "We respect the armed forces and must keep it away from the unnecessary insults."
Abul-Futoh: The armed forces are a patriotic force and during the revolution people chanted the army and people are one. How Scaf ran the country now has nothing to do with the esteem in which we hold our armed forces. But no state institution can be above the law.
Cat's out of the bag, Abul-Futouh admits he wants to implement Sharia law after Moussa faces him with it.
There is a difference of opinion between "the principles of Sharia" being the basis of legislation as stated in Article 2 of the constitution and the "rulings of Sharia" which is the Sharia bylaws. Moussa points out that Abul-Futouh wants to implement the rulings of Sharia and Abul-Futouh quips "of course".
For readers who can't see the debate, there's a clock in the corner of the screen, set at two minutes, as each candidate starts speaking. After 1min 50sec it starts beeping – then after two minutes they are cut off in midstream.
This might seem trivial, but it's impossible to imagine that Egyptian TV would have ever cut off Mubarak like that. Perhaps it's a small sign that whoever wins this election will not be all-powerful but a president subject to rules. The first round is over. Second round to start in half an hour. After round one, no one seems on top, with the two candidates besting each other on various topics.
Near the end of the first round, Moussa asked Abul-Futouh about his pledge of allegiance to the supreme guide of the Muslim Brotherhood while a member, and whether that means that if president, he would need to run things by the Brotherhood supremo. Abul-Futouh responds that he resigned from the Brotherhood last year when announcing his candidacy and that he has support from all Egyptians, liberals, moderate Islamists and conservative Islamists, like the Salafis.
Moussa responds to this by accusing Abul-Futouh of doublespeak to have such broad support and must be tailoring his message to each one.
Abul-Futouh counters by asking Moussa about his support of Mubarak's reelection in 2010.
Moussa counters that this was a specific question he had been asked about whether he supported Mubarak senior or his son Gamal, and that he preferred the elder to the inheritance of power scenario.
The election debate studio Photograph: Dream TV/AFP/Getty Images Earlier, there was a great question about sources of funding for their campaign, information which has not been readily available. There is a LE 10 million spending cap on the campaign with an extra LE 2 million for the runoff.
The second part of the question is whether they have accepted foreign funding for their campaigns.
Moussa says he is funding the campaign from his own pocket, and that of his family, and has so far spent LE 3 million. He moans that campaign advertising is extremely expensive and that the funding cap is too low for there are more expenses to come.
For his part Abul-Futouh says that his campaign has paid LE1 million so far but owe another LE 6 million, which they hope to recoup from donations.
During the rebuttal phase, things became even more heated when Moussa asked Abul-Futoh about his involvement as a founder of the Gamaa Islamiya, a group that was responsible for the deaths of tens of Egyptians, including women and Copts. Abul-Futoh responded that he was proud of forming the Islamic movement in the seventies, which was a peaceful movement that did not shed blood. Some left and committed violence but that didn't reflect on the Islamic movement. It was the Mubarak regime that Moussa was a part of that killed and tortured Egyptians, he added.
Regarding security, Abul-Futoh said that the interior ministry needs restructuring and said the recent security lapse in Egypt was sometimes purposeful: Moussa said there must be a distinction between restructuring the interior ministry and restructuring the police, which was more relevant. Moussa then accuses Abul-Futoh of stealing slogans from his platform.
Moussa says: "The Muslim Brotherhood is no longer banned, but is still not yet legal and can easily be classified as a legal body. I'm against religious parties because discrimination is inherent in it. This causes division amongst citizens."
Abul-Futoh says that the president has the right to appoint the defence minister and that in principle he was not averse to appointing a civilian defence minister. However he wouldn't currently, due to the deteriorating situation.
Regarding the virginity tests, he says: "There is no institution that is above the law, whoever breaks the law must be held accountable. What was said about the virginity tests must be investigated and whoever responsible be held accountable. The dignity of Egypt's women must be kept. I trust that the military as an institution wouldn't agree to this if this happened."
For his part, Moussa pretty much echoes his rival on both counts, without the part about a civilian defence minister. He also says that in regards to the military's financial empire, that is not something new and any military must achieve self-sufficiency, but it must be in coordination with the state.
He adds that the virginity tests warrants an investigation and the involvement of the judiciary. "The affront to any Egyptian is not acceptable, let alone the Egyptian woman. They are half our society, how can we allow them to be assaulted or their role limited in any way? The judiciary must be harsh with whoever has done this if proven true."
No matter, Egypt's first ever presidential debate is now over.
The second part of the question is whether they have accepted foreign funding for their campaigns.
Moussa says he is funding the campaign from his own pocket, and that of his family, and has so far spent LE 3 million. He moans that campaign advertising is extremely expensive and that the funding cap is too low for there are more expenses to come.
For his part Abul-Futouh says that his campaign has paid LE1 million so far but owe another LE 6 million, which they hope to recoup from donations.
The second round of the debate has kicked off. The first question the candidates faced is why should people vote for them and not their opponent. Moussa said people should vote for him because he was tried and tested in senior posts while Abul-Futoh pointed out that he has managed to unite disparate forces behind him.
Things got slightly heated when discussing their financial status, with Abul-Futoh accusing Moussa of keeping his financial status under wraps while Abul-Futoh was open about his.During the rebuttal phase, things became even more heated when Moussa asked Abul-Futoh about his involvement as a founder of the Gamaa Islamiya, a group that was responsible for the deaths of tens of Egyptians, including women and Copts. Abul-Futoh responded that he was proud of forming the Islamic movement in the seventies, which was a peaceful movement that did not shed blood. Some left and committed violence but that didn't reflect on the Islamic movement. It was the Mubarak regime that Moussa was a part of that killed and tortured Egyptians, he added.
Regarding security, Abul-Futoh said that the interior ministry needs restructuring and said the recent security lapse in Egypt was sometimes purposeful: Moussa said there must be a distinction between restructuring the interior ministry and restructuring the police, which was more relevant. Moussa then accuses Abul-Futoh of stealing slogans from his platform.
The following question is about the status of the Muslim Brotherhood, religious-based parties and civil liberties and minority rights.
Abul-Futoh says that the Brotherhood has no special status and will be treated as any other NGO. All must respect the law and not work outside it. "I am against religious parties in the sense that membership is reserved only for a certain religion," he says. "As for parties that respect Islamic reference, that is in the constitution. I am against the term 'minorities' – Copts are equal citizens like all other Egyptians, there will be no discrimination."Moussa says: "The Muslim Brotherhood is no longer banned, but is still not yet legal and can easily be classified as a legal body. I'm against religious parties because discrimination is inherent in it. This causes division amongst citizens."
Several big questions asked about the military. Firstly, would the candidates change the defence minister (who is currently the de facto ruler) and what would they do about the military's enormous business investments.
They were also asked what their response is to allegations against the military police regarding claims of torture and the infamous "virginity tests" conducted against female protesters.Abul-Futoh says that the president has the right to appoint the defence minister and that in principle he was not averse to appointing a civilian defence minister. However he wouldn't currently, due to the deteriorating situation.
Regarding the virginity tests, he says: "There is no institution that is above the law, whoever breaks the law must be held accountable. What was said about the virginity tests must be investigated and whoever responsible be held accountable. The dignity of Egypt's women must be kept. I trust that the military as an institution wouldn't agree to this if this happened."
For his part, Moussa pretty much echoes his rival on both counts, without the part about a civilian defence minister. He also says that in regards to the military's financial empire, that is not something new and any military must achieve self-sufficiency, but it must be in coordination with the state.
He adds that the virginity tests warrants an investigation and the involvement of the judiciary. "The affront to any Egyptian is not acceptable, let alone the Egyptian woman. They are half our society, how can we allow them to be assaulted or their role limited in any way? The judiciary must be harsh with whoever has done this if proven true."
The issue of Israel finally comes up, along with Iran and the US. The question is whether Israel is to be considered a strategic enemy. Abul-Futoh says it is, as it is a country that has 200 nuclear warheads and oppresses Palestinians and will remain doing so until the creation of a Palestinian state. Regarding Iran and the US, he says relations will be the same, based on Egyptian independence but with the caveat that Iran cannot attempt to spread Shia beliefs in Egypt.
Moussa insists he will reconsider the relationship with Israel, based around the Palestinian issue, calling for a Palestinian state with East Jerusalem as its capital. A Palestinian state is essential to Egypt, he adds. He is against war with Iran, despite the many differences between the two countries. After a marathon four and half hours (including extended ad breaks), it is finally over.
The final moments were spent with the two candidates belatedly taking swipes at each other. Abul-Futoh mainly attacked Moussa over his tenure as foreign minister and the deterioration of Egypt's relations with the Arab world and Africa, while Moussa read excerpts from Abul-Futoh's memoirs in which he allegedly promotes violent Islamic struggle. Abul-Futoh responded by saying this was a misquote taken out of context and that it was actually comments made by youth who had decided to take up armed struggle.No matter, Egypt's first ever presidential debate is now over.
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